Not using the "like" button is counter-productive. It is a useful tool not only for you to track who you've see, but also for your readers to know you've seen our comments.
Simply use a disclaimer such as "A "like" on a post does not imply endorsement, agreement, or disagreement — it simply indicates that I’ve read it." If you respond to a post, your response will indicate whether you agree with the poster, or not.
As for the folks who attend Coachella... My nephew has been a couple of times. He is not even remotely what one would call a person with money - nor are his friends. What they are, are innovative. Pretty much doing stuff the way I did as a kid on the cheap. I also know a couple of folks who have gone to Burning Man who don't have two sticks to rub together. While many - if not most - of these folks may have disposable funds, there are ways to enjoy this stuff without a bankroll. Lord knows I've done it.
But speaking at Coachella is reaching a hellava lot more people than just those in the audience. And it's also a positive way to help influence change to people who don't normally pay attention to politics. Their minds are not clamped shut.
And, really... If saying something innocuous like someone's pronouns do matter while simultaneously listing things that are certain to affect them directly, and that person votes for a Trump-loving fascist fuckwad, instead, we never had that voter in the first place - and probably never will.
The clamped shut minds are going to stay that way. No amount of "outreach" is going to sway them. We need to stop focusing on that MINORITY of potential voters and start focusing on the MAJORITY of potential voters who simply aren't voting.
I think a good starting point for getting people out in the streets, writing their Reps, et al, is happening with 50501, among others. The two most recent protests I've been to have been with people of all ages - sadly, not all colors, because POC have some very legitimate concerns about being dragged away iun unmarked vehicles while protesting in our current fascist state. But it's also emphasizing the state of the United States that has made speaking up so fearful - and that resonates with everyone I have seen.
As for the threat to primary... it has certainly worked with the Trump crowd. Republicans are lock-step with anything and everything he does because they fear the retribution and bottomless pit of money Elonia has. Our under-performing Democratic seats need to know that their Blue seats may be safe - but their occupation of that seat is not.
Finally,if the Democratic Party wants to muzzle someone like David Hogg, why are we ever having this conversation? The other side has already won.
While I disagree with Hogg's approach, as incongruous as this sounds, I think he should go for it - because I DO believe in open primaries. HOWEVER, I don't think he should do it as a vice chair of the DNC -- pick a side -- if that's what he wants to do -- run the challengers. With the other organization. I am opposed to people holding multiple political positions.
And one other thing - in a lot of places, there are NOT open Democratic primaries - for example, in PA, the party endorsements are made prior to petition signing. It precludes challengers winning (in most cases) because too many primary voters vote the sample ballot and don't even know who the named people are.
An example of this, here, in 2025 is the Malvern (boro) mayoral race. The incumbent mayor (who's a great guy) didn't get the endorsement because of one bad actor (call me if you want details) and now he's running on both the Democratic primary side AND the Republican side as a write-in. The bad actor Democrat and his cronies are doing everything they can to ruin the mayor (both as mayor and the business he owns.) I fear similar things next year.
Just a couple of points. First, I know a few young folks (some are relatives unfortunately) who aren’t jobless, homeless or otherwise on the fringe who are MAGA. It makes no sense to me and I just can’t wrap my head around it. I don’t think Bernie and AOC are wasting time talking to people who could afford tickets to Coachella. The 30,000 cheering Bernie are also reaching out to the untold numbers across the country who couldn’t afford or were logistically unable to be there.
As for young folks (particularly young men) who support far right causes, I honestly think they’re lost and there is no way to reach them. We have to outnumber them and reach the liberals who are apathetic and sit home. I think one of the ways to start reaching them is to listen. Don't give them a utopian view of the world that isn't reachable in their lifetime. Give them universal healthcare a fair minimum wage and free university education for starters. This country can afford all of that.
I too worry about challenging sitting moderate Democrats but I also worry about sticking with the status quo when it’s clearly not working. If a moderate democrat doesn’t like the message of a progressive candidate and sits out the election then they’re part of the problem. Or maybe most of the problem given the number of democrats who didn’t vote in the 2024 election.
And as an aside I’m sad over the loss of Pope Francis. Not because I’m Catholic (I’m actually a raging heathen) but it’s another loss of a liberal voice in the world.
I join you in being grief-stricken over the loss of Pope Francis. In a world gone mad, he spent his entire life working to make the world a better place, to be inclusive, to disdain war and violence, and he was brave enough to smack down even heads of state who got things wrong. I am really glad he was able to give that last Easter blessing. As a Jew, I'm not all that clear on why that was important, but I know it WAS important to him.
I appreciate your thoughtful consideration of the points people brought up, and your thick skin! The point about Cochella and the affluent audience there is a great one. Dems do need to find the Joe Rogan opportunities to reach these trumper young men who have been convinced that women, minorities and trans people are "out to get their x (jobs, houses, promotions)" with "unfair" advantages like Affirmative Action etc. But it's not just the venues to reach them, it's the MESSAGE we need to get through to them. Crazy as it seems to us women and minorities and trans people, it's going to be super tough to convince them that THERE IS ENOUGH FOR ALL OF US. Someone in the old Pantsuit Nation FB group from 2016 called this "Bake more Pie" and that has stuck with me. MAGA messaging says there's not enough "pie" and we have to fight for our piece. DEM messaging must refute that false narrative. I hear this called "the politics of abundance" now, but I like the simple image that AMERICANS CAN BAKE MORE PIE, and we should elect people who will set us up to do just that. I have tried for years to find a way to boil that down to a meme or bumper sticker but am not that clever :(
Have you heard Mallory McMorrow lately? She's running for Gary Peter's seat. I heard her last week talking about how we need to message "A New American Dream" and she had 3 words, which I've forgotten, but it was REALLY GOOD. And the thrust was that we need to create a world where EVERYONE can have a good job (and the education to get there, including vocational), afford to live, buy a house and live a good life WITHOUT going back to the way things were. Inspirational. Her website is still rudimentary but I assume she'll get to adding in her positions, and I think leveraging her approach will really work.
Once again, we are debating what's wrong with the Democratic Party. There is nothing really wrong about the Democratic Party that a new election following another disastrous GOP Administration won't cure. History may not repeat itself but just about every Depression, or Panic or Recession resulted during and because of a GOP governance. History will also show that every one of these economic disasters was followed by decades of Democratic Party governance.
Once again, the 2024 election did not result from Trump securing meaningfully greater support from young folks, or old folks, or Black, or Latino folks. The real number comparisons of the actual votes cast for Trump in the 2020 election vs the 2024 election by each of these groups doesn’t show any meaningful gain in the votes of any of these separate constituencies. What they do show is a very meaningful drop off of votes cast for Democratic candidates almost everywhere from 2020 to 2024; that all too many citizens had come to the conclusion that things weren’t going the way they wanted them to go, so why bother to vote or even register vote to continue those in charge.
If what the current incompetents in charge continue to produce in quite visible damage to everyone’s’ daily lives doesn’t drive the present non-combatants to the polls, we are indeed a failed society.
I read something somewhere (unfortunately I don’t remember where or who wrote it) that indicated that there is a split between the generation of young males that experienced Covid while growing up. One half swung heavily to the right and the other to the left. Again, I don’t remember which half is which. My apologies for not remembering all the details.
There are too many details to keep straight. It appears that there was a lot of emotional damage done to teenagers during Covid (along with younger kids) and many of them lost social skills, the ability to work in groups, and made them focus on TikTok and other easy-to-digest bits.
The Democratic Party needs to reach out to young people and tell them what the party can do for them. I see the party falling into the same immigration trap the republicans are setting, again. I understand that due process and handling all immigrants issues legally are important and right. You can clearly see that republicans are out claiming violent criminals and gang members are coming into the country and only republicans are stopping it. While informed people know this is not true most people believe it. The party needs to continue to message that we still believe in due process and IF someone is found guilty of crimes they will be deported. At the same time messing to the public how the party will better their lives. The Republicans are running Democrats in circles again.
My question is always "how do we reach young people?" When I talk to people with kids in that age range and ask how they approach their kids, they often say that the kids are uninterested in politics "the whole system is corrupt" and they have no interest in doing anything to change it. I think outreach is GREAT -- but I just don't know HOW.
I don't object to anything David Hogg chooses to do as a citizen, however as the Vice Chair of the Democratic Party I think it's totally improper. So, if this is his plan he should step down. I'm not happy with some of these congresspeople but to be an officer of the Party, I feel this is wrong.
I've always felt that people should have ONE job. Put all your energy into that. I'm referring to political jobs, not people who HAVE to work multiple gig jobs or minimum wage jobs.
Agree. Now I have unsubscribed to his emails and won't send him anymore $$. I really do want younger people to take the reigns and continue the fight because I'm tired.
I am tired, too. I've wished for literally decades that the young would step up. I did my time during Vietnam protests, getting the voting age lowered, getting abortions legalized -- it should have been enough.
In the early 80's I had a dart board in my office, and I had a photo of Jerry on it, with the tag line "the moral majority is neither". I enjoyed throwing darts during working hours.
Not using the "like" button is counter-productive. It is a useful tool not only for you to track who you've see, but also for your readers to know you've seen our comments.
Simply use a disclaimer such as "A "like" on a post does not imply endorsement, agreement, or disagreement — it simply indicates that I’ve read it." If you respond to a post, your response will indicate whether you agree with the poster, or not.
As for the folks who attend Coachella... My nephew has been a couple of times. He is not even remotely what one would call a person with money - nor are his friends. What they are, are innovative. Pretty much doing stuff the way I did as a kid on the cheap. I also know a couple of folks who have gone to Burning Man who don't have two sticks to rub together. While many - if not most - of these folks may have disposable funds, there are ways to enjoy this stuff without a bankroll. Lord knows I've done it.
But speaking at Coachella is reaching a hellava lot more people than just those in the audience. And it's also a positive way to help influence change to people who don't normally pay attention to politics. Their minds are not clamped shut.
And, really... If saying something innocuous like someone's pronouns do matter while simultaneously listing things that are certain to affect them directly, and that person votes for a Trump-loving fascist fuckwad, instead, we never had that voter in the first place - and probably never will.
The clamped shut minds are going to stay that way. No amount of "outreach" is going to sway them. We need to stop focusing on that MINORITY of potential voters and start focusing on the MAJORITY of potential voters who simply aren't voting.
I think a good starting point for getting people out in the streets, writing their Reps, et al, is happening with 50501, among others. The two most recent protests I've been to have been with people of all ages - sadly, not all colors, because POC have some very legitimate concerns about being dragged away iun unmarked vehicles while protesting in our current fascist state. But it's also emphasizing the state of the United States that has made speaking up so fearful - and that resonates with everyone I have seen.
As for the threat to primary... it has certainly worked with the Trump crowd. Republicans are lock-step with anything and everything he does because they fear the retribution and bottomless pit of money Elonia has. Our under-performing Democratic seats need to know that their Blue seats may be safe - but their occupation of that seat is not.
Finally,if the Democratic Party wants to muzzle someone like David Hogg, why are we ever having this conversation? The other side has already won.
While I disagree with Hogg's approach, as incongruous as this sounds, I think he should go for it - because I DO believe in open primaries. HOWEVER, I don't think he should do it as a vice chair of the DNC -- pick a side -- if that's what he wants to do -- run the challengers. With the other organization. I am opposed to people holding multiple political positions.
And one other thing - in a lot of places, there are NOT open Democratic primaries - for example, in PA, the party endorsements are made prior to petition signing. It precludes challengers winning (in most cases) because too many primary voters vote the sample ballot and don't even know who the named people are.
An example of this, here, in 2025 is the Malvern (boro) mayoral race. The incumbent mayor (who's a great guy) didn't get the endorsement because of one bad actor (call me if you want details) and now he's running on both the Democratic primary side AND the Republican side as a write-in. The bad actor Democrat and his cronies are doing everything they can to ruin the mayor (both as mayor and the business he owns.) I fear similar things next year.
Just a couple of points. First, I know a few young folks (some are relatives unfortunately) who aren’t jobless, homeless or otherwise on the fringe who are MAGA. It makes no sense to me and I just can’t wrap my head around it. I don’t think Bernie and AOC are wasting time talking to people who could afford tickets to Coachella. The 30,000 cheering Bernie are also reaching out to the untold numbers across the country who couldn’t afford or were logistically unable to be there.
As for young folks (particularly young men) who support far right causes, I honestly think they’re lost and there is no way to reach them. We have to outnumber them and reach the liberals who are apathetic and sit home. I think one of the ways to start reaching them is to listen. Don't give them a utopian view of the world that isn't reachable in their lifetime. Give them universal healthcare a fair minimum wage and free university education for starters. This country can afford all of that.
I too worry about challenging sitting moderate Democrats but I also worry about sticking with the status quo when it’s clearly not working. If a moderate democrat doesn’t like the message of a progressive candidate and sits out the election then they’re part of the problem. Or maybe most of the problem given the number of democrats who didn’t vote in the 2024 election.
And as an aside I’m sad over the loss of Pope Francis. Not because I’m Catholic (I’m actually a raging heathen) but it’s another loss of a liberal voice in the world.
I join you in being grief-stricken over the loss of Pope Francis. In a world gone mad, he spent his entire life working to make the world a better place, to be inclusive, to disdain war and violence, and he was brave enough to smack down even heads of state who got things wrong. I am really glad he was able to give that last Easter blessing. As a Jew, I'm not all that clear on why that was important, but I know it WAS important to him.
I appreciate your thoughtful consideration of the points people brought up, and your thick skin! The point about Cochella and the affluent audience there is a great one. Dems do need to find the Joe Rogan opportunities to reach these trumper young men who have been convinced that women, minorities and trans people are "out to get their x (jobs, houses, promotions)" with "unfair" advantages like Affirmative Action etc. But it's not just the venues to reach them, it's the MESSAGE we need to get through to them. Crazy as it seems to us women and minorities and trans people, it's going to be super tough to convince them that THERE IS ENOUGH FOR ALL OF US. Someone in the old Pantsuit Nation FB group from 2016 called this "Bake more Pie" and that has stuck with me. MAGA messaging says there's not enough "pie" and we have to fight for our piece. DEM messaging must refute that false narrative. I hear this called "the politics of abundance" now, but I like the simple image that AMERICANS CAN BAKE MORE PIE, and we should elect people who will set us up to do just that. I have tried for years to find a way to boil that down to a meme or bumper sticker but am not that clever :(
Trust me, I don't have thick skin.
Have you heard Mallory McMorrow lately? She's running for Gary Peter's seat. I heard her last week talking about how we need to message "A New American Dream" and she had 3 words, which I've forgotten, but it was REALLY GOOD. And the thrust was that we need to create a world where EVERYONE can have a good job (and the education to get there, including vocational), afford to live, buy a house and live a good life WITHOUT going back to the way things were. Inspirational. Her website is still rudimentary but I assume she'll get to adding in her positions, and I think leveraging her approach will really work.
Once again, we are debating what's wrong with the Democratic Party. There is nothing really wrong about the Democratic Party that a new election following another disastrous GOP Administration won't cure. History may not repeat itself but just about every Depression, or Panic or Recession resulted during and because of a GOP governance. History will also show that every one of these economic disasters was followed by decades of Democratic Party governance.
Once again, the 2024 election did not result from Trump securing meaningfully greater support from young folks, or old folks, or Black, or Latino folks. The real number comparisons of the actual votes cast for Trump in the 2020 election vs the 2024 election by each of these groups doesn’t show any meaningful gain in the votes of any of these separate constituencies. What they do show is a very meaningful drop off of votes cast for Democratic candidates almost everywhere from 2020 to 2024; that all too many citizens had come to the conclusion that things weren’t going the way they wanted them to go, so why bother to vote or even register vote to continue those in charge.
If what the current incompetents in charge continue to produce in quite visible damage to everyone’s’ daily lives doesn’t drive the present non-combatants to the polls, we are indeed a failed society.
It IS bad, and you have succinctly defined the problem.
I read something somewhere (unfortunately I don’t remember where or who wrote it) that indicated that there is a split between the generation of young males that experienced Covid while growing up. One half swung heavily to the right and the other to the left. Again, I don’t remember which half is which. My apologies for not remembering all the details.
There are too many details to keep straight. It appears that there was a lot of emotional damage done to teenagers during Covid (along with younger kids) and many of them lost social skills, the ability to work in groups, and made them focus on TikTok and other easy-to-digest bits.
The Democratic Party needs to reach out to young people and tell them what the party can do for them. I see the party falling into the same immigration trap the republicans are setting, again. I understand that due process and handling all immigrants issues legally are important and right. You can clearly see that republicans are out claiming violent criminals and gang members are coming into the country and only republicans are stopping it. While informed people know this is not true most people believe it. The party needs to continue to message that we still believe in due process and IF someone is found guilty of crimes they will be deported. At the same time messing to the public how the party will better their lives. The Republicans are running Democrats in circles again.
My question is always "how do we reach young people?" When I talk to people with kids in that age range and ask how they approach their kids, they often say that the kids are uninterested in politics "the whole system is corrupt" and they have no interest in doing anything to change it. I think outreach is GREAT -- but I just don't know HOW.
I guess if I knew the answer to that I would be running the DNC.😊
I'm not convinced "the party" actually wants younger people - so they'd likely make things difficult for you if you were in charge!
I don't object to anything David Hogg chooses to do as a citizen, however as the Vice Chair of the Democratic Party I think it's totally improper. So, if this is his plan he should step down. I'm not happy with some of these congresspeople but to be an officer of the Party, I feel this is wrong.
I've always felt that people should have ONE job. Put all your energy into that. I'm referring to political jobs, not people who HAVE to work multiple gig jobs or minimum wage jobs.
Agree. Now I have unsubscribed to his emails and won't send him anymore $$. I really do want younger people to take the reigns and continue the fight because I'm tired.
I am tired, too. I've wished for literally decades that the young would step up. I did my time during Vietnam protests, getting the voting age lowered, getting abortions legalized -- it should have been enough.
I hear ya....my fondest protest was Jerry Fallwell and the Moral Majority in Delco.
In the early 80's I had a dart board in my office, and I had a photo of Jerry on it, with the tag line "the moral majority is neither". I enjoyed throwing darts during working hours.